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December 02, 2004
To Pay the Christian or Not
I've been mulling over the concept of 'Christian companies'.
I've heard reports of Christian companies paying employees who have families first, and not other, single members of that same company. I've got a family, so I can appreciate that on one level. No wait, I can't.
I've also heard of Christian companies letting go certain individuals because they didn't have a family, unlike the individual they elected to keep, who had far less experience, time at the company, and loyalty. Interesting how this applies to the concept of Christianity.
So, what makes a corporation 'Christian'?
Is it consideration for family?
Is it centered in hiring practices?
What if a Christian company should choose to allow its employees, or obligate its employees to work on 'charitable projects' for a given percentage of their time?
That becomes a tougher issue for me. If I were to accept a proposition from such a company, I would expect to be paid less, because the company is doing nice things for the community and other organizations. I LIKE doing nice things for the community and other organizations. But I also like being able to have such a level of income that I can make personal decisions with my economics (like helping individuals), and spending time with my family when I am not attempting to support them economically.
So, am I a mercenary if I decide to hold off from such a company for $5,000 extra a year. Make it $10,000. Make it $20,000. Where is the line?
And how do I trade environment and work status for money? One environment: fullfilling work, eeking out a living. The other: a good living, time and money to help others, decent amounts of freedom but work that is tedious and frustrating at times.
Anyway, I have been asked to consider this from several angles over the past few years (myself, and others who listen to my ramblings).
Grr. Sweet Mary man. Pay him what he's worth, or tell him you can't.
Posted by oriondark at December 2, 2004 05:20 PM
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Comments
it's all about your definition of "what he's worth"
Posted by: JosiahQ at December 2, 2004 08:49 PM
You'll probably think, "I'm sorry, did I *ask* you?" about halfway down.
1) Christian businesses: I don't know if there's a laundry list of criteria to be met that automatically makes something that is not a person cross the line from being non-Christian to Christian. What makes for Christian music or Christian literature? Or a Christian school?
With business, it's even more complicated, because the purpose of a business is to generate revenue. That's pretty much it. It's purpose is not to provide jobs for the community or take care of families, although it secondarily does both of those things. What very little the Bible has to say about business revolves around the lines of employees working hard for their employers, and people engaged in commerce being honest in their dealings and not oppressing the poor. I think the emphasis is more about what Christian employees and managers do, their values and their way of thinking, trying to glorify God in their efforts - than about what sort of things an organization can do to qualify as being Christian, if such a thing is even possible.
2) Money vs. work environment - What a great question. It's situationally dependent. I mean, I would be a very happy and fulfilled individual if I just stopped going to my job altogether, but my obligations are to care for my family and serve my congregation. This means more than money, obviously. It's time, etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you know what your important obligations are, and you should take a job that allows you the best way to fulfill them in all aspects (e.g. $100k a year to provide for your family and donate money to your church isn't worth it if you're never home or at church).
I don't think you should feel bad at all for taking a higher paying job instead of working for a "Christian" company. Not - at - all. That's not what businesses are about, and that's not why you go to work for one.
Posted by: Phil at December 3, 2004 09:16 AM
Heh. Thanks Phil!!! And Josiah.
Phil, I did have to go into some kind of abstraction land from what I was really thinking, because some of the stuff I was asking bears on a certain circumstance.
That aside, I appreciate your comments on "Christian companies". They are very similar to where I stand.
I have run into some "Christian" companies that are out to bilk their employees by encouraging them to take low pay; I have run into "Christian" companies that don't follow a model to make profit, nor do they do the majority of work for needy organizations or individuals.
This is not the case with the current situation. It was more of a way to vent some frustrations about individuals being forthwright with information and/or crystal clear about where they stood in this siutation.
And as Josiah said, its all about "What he's worth"... from the perspective of the company and the individual.
Posted by: Orion Dark at December 3, 2004 10:31 AM
i feel compelled to make some sort of contribution to this discussion as i feel like i'm one of the people that Orion refers to at the beginning of the post. that is, one of the people that he thinks has gotten screwed over working for a "Christian" company.
i guess a lot of this depends on your definition of "Christian" company, if such a definition even exists. by one definition, you could say that i've only ever worked for "Christian" companies meaning that the people who owned/ran the companies were/are believers. at the same time, i don't think Jesus ever intended the term "Christian" to be applied to anything except people. (actually, Jesus never used the word, which is a whole 'nother issue, but i'll leave that can in the cupboard for now.) people follow Christ, not companies, but at times it can be advantageous to work at a company led by someone with your same Christian values. i've never had to work on a Sunday and i've always had the pleasure of being able to connect with my boss, at least to some degree, spiritually.
that said, i think that all companies are required to play by the same set of rules, and in a sense can't help but play by them. simply put, if the company takes care of the employees, the employees will take care of the company. its the "taking care of" element that gets kind of squirrely though and is largely defined by the employee. that is, if the company is trying to meet my needs, but they're not the needs i want met, then i'm not going to be happy. traditionally those needs have been seen as almost entirely financial, but i'm finding that the more i work the broader that set of needs becomes. for example, i'm willing to sacrifice "regular" pay, or even allow for a hierarchy of who gets paid when in exchange for some other quality-of-life benefits: laid back environment, flexible hours, interesting and challenging projects, etc...
in the end, the point i'm trying to make is this: you're oversimplifying the issue Orion. there's nothing wrong with the first two items on your list of "Christian company evils" as long as everyone understands the deal, the quid pro quo's, and are willing to play along. for me, financial compensation has always been pretty low on the list of things that constitute my job satisfaction. for others that may be higher on the list, and it may be higher by necessity (you have a wife and kids, i don't), but it'd be wrong to go around condemning companies who decide to meet employees needs differently than you need yours met.
in the end its almost entirely subjective and something you have to decide for yourself. what's most important to me right now, and what am i willing to sacrifice to attain that?
Posted by: andy at December 3, 2004 02:24 PM
Hmm..
Andy, I wasn't particularly talking about you, although I did consider you along with quite a few others, as there are a veritable multitude of companies that might tout themselves as 'Christian companies'.
And, smile, I did paint it broadly, not because I wanted an answer, or there even was an answer, but for other reasons. So, not enough info for any Particular situation...
I did have a particular situation in mind, but only as a jumping point. For years I have been wresting with this issue, oftentimes tempted to go out and do something totally different (which would solve nothing, but feel good for a while). And when I say I, I mean ME.
It does end up being subjective, obviously. And the discussion also tiers out into a whole other issue of subjects (whether you consider a company a Christian company or not)... like effective witness and all that...
One thing I do think is critical is clear, concise, and open communications. If someone knows what is expected of them, and the company knows what is expected of it, and both fulfill their obligations... hunky dory. If not, and either party presumes upon the other (assuming that the corporations values are the indviduals or vice-versa, I suppos), then Houston, we have a problem.
Posted by: OrionDark at December 3, 2004 02:43 PM
very true - in the end, communication or lack thereof is where most problems stem from in every area of life, the workplace certainly not excluded. as long as everyone's clear on the "rules" and tries to keep up their end of the bargain then, as you said, hunky dory.
however, i still think this concept of a company being Christian is a more interesting discussion. the more i hear that terminology the more convinced i become its a waste of breath. and i don't mean that in a negative sense as much as a literal sense. speaking the words "Christian company" is almost the equivalent of saying nothing in my book. its kind of like the whole denominational issue among churches. i can spend all day lambasting the OPC or the PCA or RCUS as a denomination and its not going to help or hurt my local body of believers - its a waste of breath. churches, like companies, are made up of people and the conversations are only going to get interesting when we starting addressing each other instead of "the PCA" or what-have-you. (again, another can of worms i should probably have left on the shelf.) point being that individuals should be a good witness and not expect their companies to be related to that. if the company you (general you, not you Orion) work for does things or causes you to do things that make you a bad witness, don't work there. once again, its a very personal issue and the decisions end up being somewhat subjective. geez, i'm turning into a relativist... :)
and now i must get back to work so that i'll be a good employee... er, i mean, Christian.
Posted by: andy at December 3, 2004 02:57 PM
I suppose I have a problem with Phil's definition of "Christian Business", namely, that its purely arbitrary. Which would fit with seems to be all of our deconstruction of "institutions" in general.
Which I would agree with. Business, like anything, are an arbitrary grouping of people around a set of things (being geographic location or principles or goals).
Given that, I'd like to think one can define his/her business any which way they please as long as its not violating some kindof inherent Christian principle.
Now can one run his/her business in sufficient enough fashion to call it "Christian"? Sure, if we don't demand perfect. There's a big grey area though, an almost intuitive line at which we WOULDN'T feel comfortable calling a company Christian.
And that big grey area is what makes me feel uncomfortable calling any company "Christian" per se. Jeff and I, quite frankly, try to do things in a Christian fashion I suppose. Does that make it a Christian company? I dunno, sure, mebbe, dunno. I certainly don't label it that.
But want I dont' want to have happen is the ability to talk about value. With all the deconstruction going on, some of it obviously being motivated by a desire to "feel ok with the current status quo" (not inherently a bad thing) I get suspicious of anything that leads to an unwillingness to cast value, yea or nay, on a given institution.
Especially in light of the troubling tendency of most protestant Americans, particularly in the Dutch-Scottish tradition to view the moral paradigm of the situation merely in personal-economic terms. i.e. working here provides me the most money. Other factors, whether holistically personal, or wholistically institutional, should be an important factor. Case in point: one wouldn't want to work for a porn company not just because the company is immoral, but because it'd somehow be bad for your soul, even IF it pay you alot.
All that to say, Frederick's recent decision to, or not to, take a given job I certainly think was on the moral "up n' up" (if my opinion matters). He doesn't have any reason to feel guilty, at least not on defined framework for analysis (the particular situation, the particular motivations and relevant issues).
Do I think certain things such as protestant-american individualism still need to be talked about? Sure, but certainly not in a blog context.
Posted by: JosiahQ at December 3, 2004 03:58 PM
Josiah -
I may not have been clear. I don't have a definition of "Christian business;" that was my point. My partial defintion of business was that it exists to generate revenue. I don't know why that's arbitrary, or at least any more arbitrary than anybody's definition in general. Dictionary.com defines business (in the sense we're using it - as an entity) as "A commercial enterprise or establishment," which is all I was trying to say. I was closer to Andy's point, that it may be almost nonsensical to apply the term "Christian" to things like businesses and then evaluate them using criteria that we would essentially use for Christian *people* and/or the Church.
In terms of taking a job at a company run by Christians vs. working at one that isn't, that's up to my personal preference and evaluation, but I don't have a job for the purposes of enjoying Christian fellowship or spiritual community; I *can* work for believers or unbelievers with a clear conscience as long as I am being a faithful employee. That said, I might be willing to sacrifice a certain salary in order to work with a certain group of people, but that's entirely my preference - there's no moral calculus that needs to occur in order to figure out if that's what I *should* do.
I think I managed to shift points mid stream. Sorry. Friday afternoon and all.
Posted by: Phil at December 3, 2004 04:32 PM